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Posted on Jun 25, 2011
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02 montana van no voltage to purple wire on starter (starter good) all fuses, relays, ck good, have voltage going to ing.sw anti-theft problems??

  • 7 more comments 
  • garryj06 Jun 26, 2011

    I had tried the pass key info. you had suggested.....as for the anti-theft resetting didn't help either.


    In all my checking, one thing I for got to ask was: in the Haynes service book on the starting system

    wiring diagram ( a simplified wiring version) it shows the purple starter wire going to the "crank relay"

    switch contacts.

    I'm not sure what that is referring to.....if its the relay on the fuse panel under the hood, its good,

    I swapped it out with a known good one. If not, where is it, that may be my problem.

    thanks

    Garry

  • garryj06 Jun 26, 2011

    the security message never comes up, even using a extra key blank that had never been programmed, also tried unhooking the battery for about 15min. to let everything reset.
    Is there any way of completely bypassing, removing, etc. the whole passkey/anti-theft junk...
    I could care less is it works or not. Or am I looking at taking a trip to a dealership service dept. ???
    thanks

  • garryj06 Jun 26, 2011

    I made another post Sun morning, did you recv. it?
    garry

  • garryj06 Jun 26, 2011

    could you please email me if you recv. my post from early Sun. morning....I have tried to send it to

    fixta.com but they come back as undeliverable

    thanks

    Garry

  • garryj06 Jun 26, 2011

    johnjnail,

    my email is [email protected] thanks for the wiring info.

    garry

  • garryj06 Jun 27, 2011

    thanks again garry

  • garryj06 Jun 27, 2011

    got it this time....thanks,,,, i'm back to checking

  • garryj06 Jun 27, 2011

    I had sent you an email but thought I would post here also



    all switches/fuses check ok , I have 12v at pin 87 of the starter relay
    but none at the purple wire on the starter....... mine obviously does not
    have
    a straight connection between the two, there is no purple wire going into
    the underside of the fuse box and the purple wire from the starter is buried
    inside the wiring harness. Any more ideas????
    thanks
    Garry

  • garryj06 Jun 27, 2011


    I'm sure I found the problem....all information leads one to believe the start relay is one that in the underhood fuse box but this is an ign relay that supplies voltage/signal through it first then on to the actual relay which is on a separate wiring pigtail and was hanging hidden down under the fuse box & brackets ....no where in the manual I had did it show the actual start relay or where it was located.

    Even if you do Google search for a start relay most I found give you the picture of one of that's in the fuse box....can get very confusing.

    When I got to looking at the small size of wire under the ing relay I realized they couldn't be current carrying , so I started looking further.

    thanks

    Garry

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3 Answers

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  • Master 1,702 Answers
  • Posted on Jun 26, 2011
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I have the wiring diagram for the starting circuit if you would like it give me your e-mail and i will send it to you, i will try to post it but fixya has a very limeted amount of space to post piictures.

but here is the path to the purpal wire at the starter from battery ( red wire ) to the power distribution box to fuse # 1 ( main fuse ) from fues #1 to ignation switch ( red wire ) from ignation switch ( yellow wire ) to the pcm/crank fuse in the right side fuse box in right front door opening, from pcm/crank fuse to PCM ( purpal wire ) termanal #23, from PCM termanal # 76 to starter relay ( yellow/black wire ), this is the path for the control circuit for the starter relay.

fuesabe link at starter large post to starter relay ( red wire )

PCM/ABS fuse ( 10 amp )in the right side fuse box at the door opening at the right side of the dash from the PCM/ABS fuse to neutral safety switch ( pink wire ) ( neutral safety switch is located on the transmission ) from the neutral safety switch to the starter relay ( orange/black wire ).

this is the path for the starter ignation switch sinds signal to PVM pcm sends signal to starter relay, if the neutral safety switch is closed then the starter relay closes and send power from the red wire at the relay to the starter purpal wire.


02 montana van  no - johnjnail_84.jpg

  • 1 more comment 
  • Anonymous Jun 26, 2011

    stuff is on its way

  • Anonymous Jun 27, 2011

    just sent the stuff again i dont know if it went threw the first time.please let me know when you get it

  • Anonymous Jun 27, 2011

    good luck

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  • Master 10,319 Answers
  • Posted on Jun 27, 2011
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Replace the ignition/ neutral saftey switch mounted on the trans by the shift cable

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  • Pontiac Master 1,940 Answers
  • Posted on Jun 25, 2011
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If the anti-theft light is on, you will need to reset it. The system will disarm when you unlock the doors with your key or remote keyless entry transmitter.

I believe you have a problem with your PASS-Key III security system. PASS-Key III uses a radio frequency transponder in the key that matches a decoder in your vehicle. When the PASS-Key III system senses that someone is using the wrong key, it shuts down the vehicle's starter and fuel systems. The starter will not work and fuel will stop being delivered to the engine. Anyone using a trial-and-error method to start the vehicle will be discouraged because of the high number of electrical key codes.

If the engine does not start and the security message comes on, the key may have a damaged transponder. Turn the ignition off and try again. Else you may need a new key, or your PASS-Key III system may be faulty.

If the engine still does not start, and the key appears to be undamaged, try another ignition key. At this time, you may also want to check the instrument panel PASS KEY fuse. If the engine still does not start with the other key, your vehicle needs service. If your vehicle does start, the first key may be faulty. See your dealer or a locksmith who can service the PASS-Key III to have a new key made.

It is possible for the PASS-Key III decoder to learn the transponder value of a new or replacement key. Up to 10 additional keys may be programmed for the vehicle. This procedure is for learning additional keys only. If all the currently programmed keys are lost or do not operate, you must see your dealer or a locksmith who can service PASS-Key III to have keys made and programmed to the system. See your dealer or a locksmith who can service PASS-Key III to get a new key blank that is cut exactly as the ignition key that operates the system.

I’m happy to help further over the phone at https://www.6ya.com/expert/jeremy_69f3cc28d95bf514

  • 1 more comment 
  • Anonymous Jun 26, 2011

    I am sure you either have a problem with the transponder in your key, or your PASS-Key III system control module has failed. The crank relay is essentially the starter relay, and is in the box under the hood.

  • Anonymous Jun 26, 2011

    When you turn your key to On, can you hear your fuel pump through where you fill up your tank (with the cap off)? The PASS-Key II system will shut off the starter and the fuel pump if it is engaged, or malfunctioning. You could also have your fuel pressure tested to verify the fuel pump is working or not, or have the voltage going to the fuel pump tested for 12 volts with the key On.

  • Donald Whitson Jun 03, 2019

    As long as your pass key three security light isn't flashing when you key your ignition to the run position it's plain and simple math.....the yellow wire with a black stripe leading to your starting relay located on the right hand upper radiator support may be open . that wire needs to be grounded via either the antitheft security module or the PCM in order for the starting relay to be energized . if in fact you can hear your fuel pump energize after keying up.....its not a pass key 3 fault . LOOK for an open circuit on the yellow with black stripe relay wire . hope this info can help ya !

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Related Questions:

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1answer

Locating 3 amp fuse to radio which is secondary fuse after main fuse at the fuse block under dash. Followed wiring diagram which indicates fuse should be near or inside radio enclosure.

Question edited for clarity, 'fuse', unless you light it 'fuze'.Question moved to sub category.

If the radio has an inline fuse, it will be within 82 of the plug at the rear. They are built into the harness. Unlikely because there are three fuses covering audio.

https://fuse-box.info/isuzu/isuzu-trooper-1992-2002-fuses-and-relays

C11 10 (AUDIO[ACC]) MIRROR Audio, Door mirror, Door mirror control SW, Door mirror folding SW, Digital clock, Speaker C12 20 CIGARETTE Cigarette lighter C13 10 ANTI THEFT Anti-theft controller C14 15 STOP A/T CONT Stoplight SW (w/o cruise control), Brake SW (w/cruise control), Rear wheel anti-lock brake controller, Stoplight, Transmission control module, Electronic brake control module, Trailer harness connector, Cruise control unit, A/T shift lock control unit, Lockup off relay C15 20 AUDIO[BJ] Horn, Horn relay, Horn SW, Hazard warning light SW, Flasher unit, Anti-theft horn, Hazard warning light, Audio C15 20 TELEPHONE Telephone C16 10 CLOCK[B] ROOM Digital clock, Audio, Dome light, Map light, Luggage room light, Courtesy light, Door SW (Front, rear, tail gate), Antenna, Anti-theft controller, Key remind SW, Seat belt, Key & light remind buzzer
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I hv replaced my battery my starter and the starter relay switch on a 1999 mercury villiager. But when i try to st a rt it turn the key n nothing whats wrong with my car

Does it have a vehicle theft deterrent system ? Try putting the gear selector into neutral to see if it will start then , if it does the park neutral safety switch could be the problem . Looking at a wiring diagram an testing the starter electrical circuits with a DVOM - digital volt ohmmeter would be the proper way to diagnose , not guessing an just replacing parts .

Starting System The starting system consists of the following:
  • battery
  • ignition switch
  • transmission range (TR) sensor
  • inhibit relay
  • anti-theft relay (if equipped)
  • starter motor
Starter Motor
The starter motor:
  • is a permanent-magnet, gear reduction, 12V DC motor.
  • has an integral starter solenoid.
Inhibit Relay
The inhibit relay:
  • is a mini ISO relay.
  • switches power to the starter solenoid to engage the starter motor when it receives a START signal from the ignition switch (11572).
Transmission Range (TR) Sensor
The TR sensor enables the circuit to the inhibit relay in the PARK or NEUTRAL position only.
Anti-Theft Relay (If Equipped)
The anti-theft relay:
  • is a normally closed relay.
  • is grounded by the anti-theft system, which opens the relay contacts and disables the starting circuit.
  • PINPOINT TEST A: THE ENGINE DOES NOT CRANK CONDITIONS DETAILS/RESULTS/ACTIONS A1 CHECK ANTI-THEFT SYSTEM OPERATION NOTE: The four different anti-theft indicator operating states are OFF, ON, flashing once per second and flashing once per three seconds. Before continuing, make sure the anti-theft indicator is in the OFF state.
      Observe the anti-theft indicator.

    • Is the anti-theft indicator ON or flashing?
    Yes REFER to Section 419-01 .

    No GO to A2 . A2 CHECK THE BATTERY Check the battery condition and charge; refer to Section 414-00 .
    • Is the battery OK?
    Yes GO to A3 .

    No CHARGE or INSTALL a new battery as required. TEST the system for normal operation. A3 CHECK THE BATTERY GROUND CABLE Measure the voltage between the positive battery post and the battery ground cable connection at the cylinder block.
    • Is the voltage reading greater than 10 volts?
    Yes GO to A4 .

    No INSTALL a new battery ground cable. TEST the system for normal operation. A4 CHECK THE STARTER MOTOR GROUND Measure the voltage between the battery positive post and the starter motor case.
    • Is the voltage greater than 10 volts?
    Yes GO to A5 .

    No CLEAN the starter motor mounting flange and make sure the starter motor is properly mounted. TEST the system for normal operation. A5 CHECK THE POWER SUPPLY TO THE STARTER MOTOR Measure the voltage at the starter motor B terminal.
    • Is the voltage reading greater than 10 volts?
    Yes GO to A6 .

    No REPLACE the positive battery cable. TEST the system for normal operation. A6 CHECK THE STARTER MOTOR B TERMINAL
    Starter S Connector
    Connect a fused (30A) jumper wire to the B terminal of the starter motor and momentarily connect the other end to the starter solenoid S connector (harness side).
    • Does the starter motor engage and the engine crank?
    Yes GO to A7 .

    No INSTALL a new starter motor. TEST the system for normal operation. A7 CHECK START INPUT TO THE STARTER MOTOR Measure the voltage at the starter motor solenoid S connector terminal (harness side).
    • Is the voltage reading greater than 10 volts?
    Yes CLEAN the starter solenoid S terminal and connector. CHECK the wiring and the starter motor for a loose or intermittent connection. TEST the system for normal operation.

    No GO to A8 . A8 CHECK THE START INPUT TO THE INHIBIT RELAY
    Start Inhibit Relay C178

    Measure the voltage between the start inhibit relay C178 Pin 7, Circuit ST01 (RD) harness side and ground.
    • Is the voltage greater than 10 volts?
    Yes GO to A9 .

    No REFER to Section 211-05 . A9 CHECK CIRCUIT ST02 3 (R/W) Connect a jumper wire between start inhibit relay C178 Pin 7, Circuit ST01 (RD), harness side and C178 Pin 6, Circuit ST02 (RD/WH), harness side.
    • Does the starter motor engage and the engine crank?
    Yes REMOVE the jumper wire. GO to A10 .

    No REPAIR Circuit ST02 3 (RD/WH). TEST the system for normal operation. A10 CHECK THE INHIBIT RELAY GROUND Measure the resistance between the start inhibit relay C178 Pin 2, Circuit STE1 (BU), harness side and ground.
    • Is the resistance reading 5 ohms or less?
    Yes GO to A11 .

    No REPAIR Circuit STE 1 (BU). TEST the system for normal operation. A11 CHECK POWER TO THE INHIBIT RELAY Measure the voltage between start inhibit relay C178 Pin 1, Circuit ST98 (BU/WH) (Circuit ST03 [LG/BK] without anti-theft), harness side and ground.
    • Is the voltage greater than 10 volts?
    Yes Install a new inhibit relay. TEST the system for normal operation.

    No If equipped with anti-theft, GO to A12 . Otherwise, GO to A14 . A12 CHECK CIRCUIT ST95 (G/R)
    Anti-theft relay
    Measure the voltage between anti-theft relay C193 Pin 2, Circuit ST95 (GN/RD), harness side and ground.
    • Is the voltage greater than 10 volts?
    Yes GO to A13 .

    No REPAIR Circuit ST95 (GN/RD). TEST the system for normal operation. A13 CHECK CIRCUIT ST97 (LG/B) Measure the voltage between anti-theft relay C193 Pin 4, Circuit ST97 (LG/BU), harness side and ground.
    • Is the voltage greater than 10 volts?
    Yes GO to A16 .

    No GO to A14 . A14 CHECK POWER TO THE TR SENSOR
    TR Sensor
    Measure the voltage between TR sensor C161 Pin 3, Circuit ST04 (LG), harness side and ground.
    • Is the voltage greater than 10 volts?
    Yes GO to A15 .

    No REPAIR Circuit ST04 (LG). TEST the system for normal operation. A15 CHECK CIRCUIT ST03 (LG/B) Measure the resistance between TR sensor C161 Pin 2, Circuit ST03 (LG/BK), harness side and anti-theft relay C193 Pin 4, Circuit ST97 (LG/BK), harness side. Measure the resistance between TR sensor C161 Pin 2, Circuit ST03 (LG/BK), harness side and ground.
    • Is the resistance less than 5 ohms between the TR sensor and the anti-theft relay and greater than 10,000 ohms between the TR sensor and ground?
    Yes INSTALL a new TR sensor. TEST the system for normal operation.

    No REPAIR Circuit ST03 (LG/BK). TEST the system for normal operation. A16 CHECK CIRCUIT ST98 (L/W) Measure the resistance between anti-theft relay C193 Pin 3, Circuit ST98 (BU/WH), harness side and inhibit relay C178 Pin 1, Circuit ST98 (BU/WH), harness side. Measure the resistance between anti-theft relay C193 Pin 3, Circuit ST98 (BU/WH), harness side and ground.
    • Is the resistance less than 5 ohms between the anti-theft relay and the inhibit relay and greater than 10,000 ohms between the anti-theft relay and ground?
    Yes REFER to Section 419-01 .

    No REPAIR Circuit ST98 (BU/WH). TEST the system for normal operation.
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2002 Ford Taurus will not start, I think it is the anti theft system. How do we reset that or by pass it?

If it was the PATS - anti-theft system you would not have any clicking at the starter . You have connection ,cable or starter problems , most likely . Testing the starter electrical circuit doing voltage drop testing .
Starter Voltage Drop
Do you know what a wiring diagram is ? Free wiring diagrams here
http://www.bbbind.com/free_tsb.html Enter vehicle info. year , make , model and engine size . Under system click on engine then under subsystem click starting . Click the search buttom then the blue link. Looking at the wiring diagram I see fuse's at the top ,starter relay in the middle an at the bottom the starter , PCM - this is the engine computer . The PCM will energize the starter relay only if it receive's the correct coded message from the PATS module or which module is in charge of that . So you would not even get a click at the starter ,because the relay wouldn't even be energized . You could possibly have a transmission range sensor problem or positive battery cable to tthe starter or ground cable .
How to voltage drop test starter motor circuit
Test don't guess .

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The wire color that actually sends the voltage from key to starter

Without more information regarding make model and year that's a tough one to answer.Most vehicles lately use a starter relay so there is no wire that goes directly from the ignition switch to the starter,it would go from ignition switch to a neutral safety switch then perhaps a anti theft device then to the starter relay,then the starting wire would travel from the starter relay to starter.In older gm products the common ignition to starter wire was purple for years.
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Won't start

It ended up being corroded wiring. Apparently the wiring from the steering harness to the fuse box under the hood was corroded & had to be replaced.
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My 1996 Buck LeSabre won't turn over. I took the starter off and had it checked, it was fine. I checked the starter fuses and all was fine. \ Cabling was fine to the starter, voltage was 12.54...

Be sure the AIR BAG/VATS fuse 10 amp, is good. there is a STARTER ENABLE RELAY up high on the left of the steering column. I ASSUME the anti theft light is not flashing?" at the STARTER ENABLE RELAY the YELLOW wire is hot in the crank mode and comes out large PURPLE to the starter. the small purple wire is hot in the crank mode if the fuse (air bag/vats) is good. the small yellow is grounded through the park switch and the VATS module (anti theft)
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What are the symptoms of a faulty neutral safety switch on a 1994 chevy caprice classic? All power is on in the vehicle. Ignition switch has been checked, starter has been checked and engine has been...

NO POWER TO STARTER;TRY TO JUMP STARTER BENDIX MAKE SURE VEHICLE IS IN PARK AND SOMEONE HOLDS FOOT ON BREAK THIS WILL TELL YOU WETHER THE BENDIX IS LOCKED OR THE NEUTRAL SAFTEY SWITCH IS OUT OF PLACE THIS IS WHAT USUALLY HAPPENS THE SWITCH GETS LOOSE AND IS OUT OF PLACE AND READS A FAULTY READING
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Have a 2006 equinox lt. Will not turn over. Battery and connections are all good. Took starter to have tested they said it was bad. Bought a new one installed it making sure all connections were good....

Looking at a wiring diagram to see what all is involved in the starter circuit's an testing with a DMM - digital multi-meter is how you go about diagnosing this . Free wiring diagram's here http://www.bbbind.com/free_tsb.html Enter vehicle info. year , make , model an engine size . Under system click on engine ,then under subsystem click on starting . Click the search button then the blue like. Looking at the diagram i see a starter relay ,ignition switch , PCM - engine computer ,the starter . The starter should have only two wire's , heavy gage red - this is B+ voltage for the starter . A smaller gage purple wire - this is the control wire . Do you know how a relay work's ? video's on youtube showing how . If the computer see's an input from the park neutral safety switch on no anti-theft system problems it will supply a ground for the starter relay , sending B+ voltage to the starter solenoid engaging the starter an spinning the engine over .
1helpful
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Pontiac Montana starting problem

All 4 power wires go together on the large center stud on the solenoid.
The purple wire goes on the small stud.
The purple wire supplys the trigger signal when the key is turned to the start position.Since your solenoid is clicking when the key is turned to start this is working properly.
I would check battery connections and then check power connections on solenoid again.Make sure all connections are clean and tight.
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