Hi! What is in line before the fuel pump on a 2.2L Sundance that supplies the power? Mine cranks but won't start, and there is no power at the terminal of the two wire connector to the pump when the key is turned to the on position. I don't know what to check next. The fuses in the dash panel under the steering wheel are all okay. I'd appreciate your help. Thanks, Eddie
When you turn the ignition on the pump is energized for 2 to 3 seconds. did you check it like that. it is also energized when cranking the engine. there is a fuse then a relay then the fuel pump. the relay is ran/ energized by the ecm computer. if there is a fuse relay box under the hood you'll need to check there to. good luck
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The three that are bolted to the fire wall. in my experience it is the middle one. but you never know if some has switched them around. you can try turning the car on see witch one clicks?
I will find out what the relays are for and get back with you
Hey I found theorder for your relays. standing in front of the car, from left to right
1 fuel pump
2 starter
3 abs
4 radiator fan
5 a/c compressor
6 auto shut down
Hope this helps
in the picture I saw ther were three together then two then one by itself(asd)
Don't buy one yet. swap the relay first. try the fuel relay in the starter relay if it cranks then we know its good. let me know and we'll go from there. asd is #6 auto shut down also so check htis relay as it directly connected to the fuel pump relay. ie wont let it energize
No not confused yet. next you need to check power at the fuel relay harness. there should be two leads with power. the way th relay works is that one corner supplies power to the opposite corner(diagonally). usually the relay has a diagram on the side to show you what leads go to the pump. what leads got to the computer. the one that looks like a coil goes to the computer. if on thhe computer side you have no power, you will have to trace that wire and see why there is no power. this would be an ignition fuse/wire the wire should be hot when you turn on the ignition. you can also jump the other leads to see if the pump comes on.
Ok heres the deal. like you said one wire is hot all the time. that wire goes to the backside of the relay that goes to the computer. when you turn the ignition on ht etwo wires that are hot. one goes for the fuel pump the other should go dead for 2 to3 seconds then come back on and it will go dead whenn cranking. that is from the computer. the dead wire is the fuel pump wire. how it works is the computer acts as the ground for the relay. so when you turn on the igniton the computer will ground the relay for 2 seconds then go back hot. and when the car is running the computer is ground again. when the relay is grounded the coil pulls a switch and makes power to the fuel pump.take a meter and check the two wires that are hot with key on. one of them should go off then back on if this does not happen with either wire then your computer is bad. take a wire or paper clip and stick it in the relay harness on the dead wire and a power wire this should let you start the car.
ok this would be my next step or steps
1 go back to the fuse box pull every fuse one ot a time and reinsert them, I do them all just because. the main ones are anything to do with ignition and computers(ecm, pcm). you might check them as you go. make sure there good just because there good does'nt mean ther making good contact
2 pull the harness off the ecm computer and check for corrosion, check the harness pin holes to see if they have gotten out of round or to big for the pins,I dont know how it happens but it does.
3 recheck for spark, leave the jumper in
4 let me know
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Alright, I pulled and re-inserted all the fuses and re-tested with a test light. All are ok. Fought with a rusted battery hold down bracket to move the battery to get to the computer harness. That looks ok too, no sign of corrosion or out of roundness on the pins. No bent ones either. Jumpered the fuel pump relay again, crossed my fingers and tried to start it. The fuel pump runs, no power to the coil at key on but there is while cranking and for two seconds after I stop cranking. Then my test light goes out. No spark at the wire going to the distributor while cranking.
Sorry about the multiple posts. I kept getting a message "oops :( try again" after I clicked the submit button. It didn't look like it was being transmitted but obviously it was.
Ok the next is to would be pull the computer and pitch it, but before you pitch it get all the numbers off it you'll need them. call around for a new or used one. if you find one with exact #'s it wont need flashed. this could also take care of the no spark. if it does'nt the ignition module is probably bad also. I would'nt be afraid to call a dealer either you'll be surprised on how cheap some of these computers are. if you have a used prts place called LKQ around this is where I get most of my computers let me know. plus I'm sorry to have you do so much but its just my procedure to diagnose computer problems
Its' the dist.pickup thats went bad, it shut the fuel off , I take it you don't have any fire at the plugs !!
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Thanks. Yup, I checked it for the 2-3 seconds with the key to 'on' and while cranking and there's no power in either position. I don't find a fuse box under the hood but there are plenty of relays on the left side. Two are on the shock tower, three are bolted to the fender wall, and one more is zip tied to a big, fat wire loom that goes to a connector behind the battery. That connector looks like a computer terminal connector. I don't know which relay to check.
Oh oh. That's a problem. I'm all by my lone here till late this afternoon when I have someone to turn the key while I listen at the relays. Maybe you'll be here then? Meantime, thanks for your help so far.
Nope, nothing doing at any of the six relays on the left side. There is a click from a device on the right fender wall and a soft click at the injector when the key is turned to 'on'. That's all.
Cool. Thanks for the help.
Sweet! While I was waiting for you to answer I tried to find the information myself. I couldn't find it on the web or in any book. You hope this helps? Are you kiddin' me? Without your help I had no idea which relay was which. Where did you find a picture of them? So, to make sure I understood your answer I unplugged the #2 relay and as I thought, the Sundancer won't crank. So, I know I got it. If I can bother you a bit more: now that we know which is the fuel pump relay, since it doesn't click when I turn the key to 'on' does that mean I should replace it and it should be problem solved? And what is (asd)?
The only one I was able to swap it with was what we think is #5 the a/c compressor relay. It wouldn't fit any of the others. Nothing happened though, no power at the pump, crank but no start. Before I put the relays back in their original spots though I sprayed 'em with a great contact cleaner I have. Then I tried again. Now I have no fuel pump power at 'key on' but I do have power while cranking. Still no start though. Are we getting closer or more confused? Oh, and the connector I thought was a relay that's tie wrapped to the wiring loom is not a relay. It just plugs into a cap that looks like a relay. I'm thinking it's a connector for diagnostic testing maybe?
Sorry man, I know just enough about cars to get myself in trouble. The fuel pump relay is more top/bottom/left/right than diagonal if it matters. Looking from the front, the top, left and right terminals point up and down, the bottom terminal goes left to right. The top terminal is hot all the time, the left and right terminals are hot with the key on and nothing happens at the bottom terminal at key on or cranking. There aren't any pictures on the relay or the wired part.
One last update before the repair shop gets it. The right terminal of the relay loses power while cranking for two seconds. Jumping the top and bottom terminals makes the fuel pump run continuously. While it's jumpered, the car still won't start. I checked for power at the coil, too. No power with key on, but there while cranking. Thanks for your patient help. I appreciate it.
No, I didn't mind doing all of this at all. Electrical and intermittent problems are the worst of all problems to diagnose. I'm guessing by flashed you mean that if the computer isn't exactly like what I have it'll have to be re-programmed. Thanks so much for all your help. I'll poke around town and see what I can find. I've not heard of LKQ here but there are lots of used parts places around.
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