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Dodge Ram 2500 V10 5spd: P1281 - Too Cold Too Long, Running Rich, Hesitation, Power Surge at WOT, Cold exhaust to the touch on bank 2, Lower temp gauge reading.
I have recently just bought the truck and it feels almost like it is going into limp mode with retarded/advanced timing. For example it will be very sluggish on the bottom end and mid range, but as soon as the pedal is at WOT the pickup responds almost like an emergency override and runs fine, with enough torque to burn the tires in 3rd gear. The previous owner did mention changing the radiator and hoses so Im assuming the T-stat was replaced as well. Can an issue as simple as a lower temp T-stat cause major drivability issues in this vehicle? It is actually been below freezing here in Texas and I noticed today after I turned the heated it was blowing cooler once I got on the highway and saw the gauge sitting down on the first 1/4 of the temp meter. After getting home I noticed the rich fuel odor, it should also be know that I have dual exhaust and the left exhaust was blowing rich, cold air air driving for 30 min and was obviously not even firing on cylinders on that bank because the exhaust not was absent only the right pipe was expelling combusted gas, but I am also not getting any misfire codes what-so-ever, hence my suspicion that it is in a limp mode with set tables and parameters once the sensors go in open loop, am I thinking correctly?? If I do replace the T-stat is there a PCM relearn I will have to perform? What are the steps? Sorry for any grammar or spelling, it's late and Im stumped and exhausted, any help is much appreciated.
Ok guys, so I was sitting in the parts store parking lot and realized that it couldn't be the thermostat because the system went to a closed loop and abandoned preset parameters for warm up once it noticed the A/F ratio from the O2 sensors was off. Once I unhooked the O2 sensor of course the light came on, but ran like a champ. I ordered the sensor and will be replacing it this weekend. If you do not hear back from me then you know that that was the fix. Thanks, hope this helps someone else who get stumped on the same predicament...P.S. Mind you, I never had a CEL or code for O2 sensors by the way, I just checked them on a whim.Ok guys, so I was sitting in the parts store parking lot and realized that it couldn't be the thermostat because the system went to a closed loop and abandoned preset parameters for warm up once it noticed the A/F ratio from the O2 sensors was off. Once I unhooked the O2 sensor of course the light came on, but ran like a champ. I ordered the sensor and will be replacing it this weekend. If you do not hear back from me then you know that that was the fix. Thanks, hope this helps someone else who get stumped on the same predicament...P.S. Mind you, I never had a CEL or code for O2 sensors by the way, I just checked them on a whim.
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Re: Dodge Ram 2500 V10 5spd: P1281 - Too Cold Too Long,...
Yes absolutely some of these issues could be caused by incorrect temperature check you MAPsensor as well as your coolant temp sensor they are the main causes for what you have exactly described by news ones install them clean and neat with clean hands and if they dont work return them and check your ecm and make sure it hasn't been reprogrammed to keep fans on
Testimonial: "It was an O2 sensor, but was not throwing a code for it. I just checked it just to make sure since the symptoms fit, and sure enough it was a faulty sensor. Thanks for the info though, good to know for the future."
Check the torque coverter. And also ignition via computer could be affected by not allowing it into open loop mode swing it by dodge dealership and have then read the parameters of the ecm save you lots of time and moneyCheck the torque coverter. And also ignition via computer could be affected by not allowing it into open loop mode swing it by dodge dealership and have then read the parameters of the ecm save you lots of time and money
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Did you clean the Throttle body? That is often the cause of a rough idle.
The Fuel Air o2 sensor on the manifold is often hard to reach, but the downstream o2 sensor after the catalytic converter is easier to get to.
Code P0172 indicates Bank 1 of the engine has a rich fuel mixture. P0175 indicates Bank 2 of the engine has a rich fuel mixture. Engine Bank 1 is the same side of the engine as Engine Cylinder 1. Engine Bank 2 is the opposite side of the engine. A firing order and cylinder location diagram may be needed to see which side of the engine is Bank 1 or Bank 2.
P0172 is triggered by the engine bank 1?"upstream" oxygen sensor and P0175 is triggered by the engine bank 2 "upstream" oxygen sensor. The oxygen sensor alerts your system when the condition is too rich meaning there's too much fuel int the exhaust stream or too little oxygen in the exhaust stream. The symptoms and causes will help you determine the exact issue and how to fix it.
Your bank 1 or bank 2 sensors will be referred to as "sensor 1" or "sensor 2". Sensor 1 refers to "upstream" sensors, or the ones near the engine and before the catalytic converter. Sensor 2 is "downstream" or after the converter.
If you don't have a code reader that reads live data, borrow one or go to an auto parts house and 'rent' one. Watch your intake air temp (and coolant temp) as the engine warms up. If you don't see the temperatures going up (coolant more than IAT), you may have a bad temp sensor. The computer feeds more fuel when the engine is cold, and may be running the engine excessively rich when it is warmed up.
some mention of diesel. and O2 sensors. See if you can find others with your problem. Several times? Sounds like they owe you some more information. I'd get in touch with Dodge customer service!
this trouble code means your system is running to lean on bank 2, Basically this means that an oxygen sensor in bank 2 detected a lean condition (too much oxygen in the exhaust). On V6/V8/V10 engines, Bank 2 is generally the side of the engine that doesn't have cylinder #1. You will more than likely not notice any drivability problems, although there may be symptoms such as a lack of power, detonation (spark knock), and/or a hesitation/surge on acceleration
Get a PCM test for fault codes. It could be an oxygen sensor or MAF sensor. Free test at AUtozone if check engine light is on.
Clean MAF sensor heated wires with carb cleaner by spraying seveal times. Do not brush it. Disconnect battery for 2 hours and then drive for 10 miles after hook up.
SERVICE TIP
MASS AIR FLOW (MAF) DISCUSSION
MAF sensors can get contaminated from a variety of sources: dirt, oil, silicon, spider webs, potting compound from the sensor itself, etc. When a MAF sensor gets contaminated, it skews the transfer function such that the sensor over-estimates air flow at idle (causes the fuel system to go rich) and under-estimates air flow at high air flows (causes fuel system to go lean). This means Long Term Fuel Trims will learn lean (negative) corrections at idle and learn rich (positive) corrections at higher air flows.
If vehicle is driven at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) or high loads, the fuel system normally goes open loop rich to provide maximum power. If the MAF sensor is contaminated, the fuel system will actually be lean because of under-estimated air flow. During open loop fuel operation, the vehicle applies Long Term Fuel Trim corrections that have been learned during closed loop operation. These corrections are often lean corrections learned at lower air flows. This combination of under-estimated air flow and lean fuel trim corrections can result in spark knock/detonation and lack of power concerns at WOT and high loads.
One of the indicators for diagnosing this condition is barometric pressure. Barometric pressure (BARO) is inferred by the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) software at part throttle and WOT (there is no actual BARO sensor on MAF-equipped vehicles, except for the 3.8L Supercharged engine). At high air flows, a contaminated MAF sensor will under-estimate air flow coming into the engine, hence the PCM infers that the vehicle is operating at a higher altitude. The BARO reading is stored in Keep Alive Memory (KAM) after it is updated. Other indicators are Long Term Fuel Trim and MAF voltage at idle.
NOTE: THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURE MAY ALSO BE USED TO DIAGNOSE VEHICLES THAT DO NOT HAVE FUEL SYSTEM/HO2S SENSOR DTCs.
Symptoms
Lack of Power
Spark Knock/Detonation
Buck/****
Hesitation/Surge on Acceleration
Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) Illuminated - DTCs P0171, P0172, P0174, P0175 may be stored in memory
OBDII DTCs
P0171, P0174 (Fuel system lean, Bank 1 or 2)
P0172, P0175 (Fuel system rich, Bank 1 or 2)
P1130, P1131, P1132, (HO2S11 lack of switching, Bank 1)
P1150, P1151, P1152, (HO2S21 lack of switching, Bank 2)
OBDI DTCs
181, 189 (Fuel system lean, Bank 1 or 2)
179, 188 (Fuel system rich, Bank 1 or 2)
171, 172, 173 (HO2S11 lack of switching, Bank 1)
175, 176, 177 (HO2S21 lack of switching, Bank 2)
184, 185 (MAF higher/lower than expected)
186, 187 (Injector pulse width higher/lower than expected)
NOTE: DO NOT DISCONNECT THE BATTERY. IT WILL ERASE KEEP ALIVE MEMORY AND RESET LONG TERM FUEL TRIM AND BARO TO THEIR STARTING/BASE VALUES. THE BARO PARAMETER IDENTIFICATION DISPLAY (PID) IS USED FOR THIS DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURE. ALL OBDII APPLICATIONS HAVE THIS PID AVAILABLE. THERE ARE SOME OBDI VEHICLES THAT DO NOT HAVE THE BARO PID, FOR THESE VEHICLES OMIT THE BARO CHECK AND REFER ONLY TO STEPS 2, 3, AND 4 IN THE DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURE.
Look at the BARO PID. Refer to the Barometric Pressure Reference Chart in this article. At sea level, BARO should read about 159 Hz (29.91 in. Hg). As a reference, Denver, Colorado at 1524 meters (5000 ft.) altitude should be about 144 Hz (24.88 in. Hg.). Normal learned BARO variability is up to ±6 Hz (±2 in. Hg.). If BARO indicates a higher altitude than you are at (7 or more Hz lower than expected), you may have MAF contamination. If available, Service Bay Diagnostic System (SBDS) has a Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor that can be used as a barometric pressure reference. Use "MAP/BARO" test under "Powertrain," "Testers and Meters." Ignore the hookup screen. Connect GP2 to the reference MAP on the following screen.
NOTE: REMEMBER THAT MOST WEATHER SERVICES REPORT A LOCAL BAROMETRIC PRESSURE THAT HAS BEEN CORRECTED TO SEA LEVEL. THE BARO PID, ON THE OTHER HAND, REPORTS THE ACTUAL BAROMETRIC PRESSURE FOR THE ALTITUDE THE VEHICLE IS BEING OPERATED IN. LOCAL WEATHER CONDITIONS (HIGH AND LOW PRESSURE AREAS) WILL CHANGE THE LOCAL BAROMETRIC PRESSURE BY SEVERAL INCHES OF MERCURY (±3 Hz, ±1 in. Hg.). NOTE: BARO IS UPDATED ONLY WHEN THE VEHICLE IS AT HIGH THROTTLE OPENINGS. THEREFORE, A VEHICLE WHICH IS DRIVEN DOWN FROM A HIGHER ALTITUDE MAY NOT HAVE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO UPDATE THE BARO VALUE IN KAM. IF YOU ARE NOT CONFIDENT THAT BARO HAS BEEN UPDATED, PERFORM THREE OR FOUR HEAVY, SUSTAINED ACCELERATIONS AT GREATER THAN HALF-THROTTLE TO ALLOW BARO TO UPDATE.
My resources say P1281 is engine is cold too long. That would lead me to possibilty of faulty thermostat, or something else in cooling system. What exactly are you getting for symptoms? No start, poor starting, poor running, ?
Well, usually when a proper running vehicle backfires through the exhaust its caused by an excess in fuel building up in the pipe and igniting. Some newer diesle trucks will spray fuel into the exhaust to clean the emissions and reduce smoke coming out of the tail pipe. You could have a bent or sticking valve that is allowing extra fuel out into the exhaust, or when it went to clean the exhaust (If your model does that) the exhaust might not have been hot enough to ignite the fuel until you put a load on it causing the exhaust temp to jump igniting all the fuel in the tail pipe.
The tuff part is getting to the nuts that clamp the exhaust housing to the exhaust manifold. You may need to modify (heat up and bend) some wrenches to get them all off. Be sure to prime the new turbo before running it.
it means your cars computer is pumping too muchgas into your motor because it thinks the engine is either running lean possibly due to faulty o2 sensors or that the coolant temp sensor is giving false readings and the ecm thinks the car is still too cold.
Ok guys, so I was sitting in the parts store parking lot and realized that it couldn't be the thermostat because the system went to a closed loop and abandoned preset parameters for warm up once it noticed the A/F ratio from the O2 sensors was off. Once I unhooked the O2 sensor of course the light came on, but ran like a champ. I ordered the sensor and will be replacing it this weekend. If you do not hear back from me then you know that that was the fix. Thanks, hope this helps someone else who get stumped on the same predicament...P.S. Mind you, I never had a CEL or code for O2 sensors by the way, I just checked them on a whim.
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