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I have a rattle type noise deep inside my engine when first started, it sounds like wrist pin or piston noise, goes away within 2-5 minutes, engine is an LT-1 with 60 miles, oil always changed never run low, oil pressure is 60+ PSI cold, 40+ PSI hot. Any thoughts all you experts??
I was asking if someone could just verify what the dealer told me, piston rattle, you did that, and much thanks. Yes I have tried to de-carbon the upper ring land, the noise goes away very quickly now.I was asking if someone could just verify what the dealer told me, piston rattle, you did that, and much thanks. Yes I have tried to de-carbon the upper ring land, the noise goes away very quickly now.
Just reply to the piston pins not being able to make noise, that is not true, I have worked on engines with pin misfit issues, they were noisy.Just reply to the piston pins not being able to make noise, that is not true, I have worked on engines with pin misfit issues, they were noisy.
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These motors made some noise when cold normally due to the clearance. Is it more than that? Have you tried removing plugs and soaking pistons overnight with topengine cleaner this will loosen carbon which makes some cold noise problems.
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A KNOCKING SOUND IN THE ENGINE IS MOST LIKELY CAUSED BY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING
1. PISTON SLAP: Makes a sharp metallic noise. Idle engine and short out each cylinder plug. The noise will disappear when plug with bad piston is shorted. Noise will also disappear at acceleration. This can be caused by worn or out of round cylinder, or broken piston ring. Correct problem by re-boring cylinder and/or replacing piston.
2. VALVE NOISE: Makes clicking or rattle noise. Caused by excessive wear on valve stem or lifter, out of adjustment, or stuck valve. Correct by adjusting valve clearance, replace worn valve or lifter, regrind cam, replace valve guide and /or valve. A stuck valve can sometimes be loosened by passing oil through the carburetor while engine is running.
3. ROD BEARING KNOCK: Makes sharp metallic noise similar to a piston slap. Detection is opposite of piston slap. Rod knock is not heard at idle. Knock becomes louder as engine speed is increased. Caused by excessive rod bearing clearance. Correct by adjusting rod bearing clearance to .0015 inches by removing shims. May require re-pouring rod bearing.
4. REAR MAIN BEARING KNOCK: Makes dull knocking or thud noise. Detected at speeds between 20 and 50 MPH. Knock will normally decrease or disappear while pulling or decelerating. Noise will be detected the loudest at normal driving speed, when not pulling or decelerating. Correct by adjusting bearing clearance to .001 to .0015 inches. If knock is excessive, crank should be checked for out of roundness. May need to re-pour all main bearings to correct.
5. TIMING GEAR KNOCK: usually the most difficult to diagnose. If gear is loose or badly worn it will knock in all ranges. Run engine slightly above idle speed. Slowly open and close throttle. Knock will continue to be present, but just as engine slows down knock will become a slight rattle. Remove timing pin and reinsert into timing hole on timing gear cover. Press timing pin tightly against timing gear and accelerate slightly above idle. Knock will significantly be reduced or disappear. Correct by replacing both timing gear and crank gear as a matched set. The two gears should have a backlash clearance of .003 to .004. If more than .009 inch backlash, an oversize (.005) timing gear should be installed.
6. WRIST PIN SLAP: This can not be detected by shorting out the cylinder plugs. Rapidly accelerate and decelerate the engine speed. The engine will pass through a certain speed range when the wrist pin will rattle at about the same pitch as a valve tappet noise. This can be corrected by installing a new wrist pin bushing in the rod or new wrist pin f badly worn. Wrist pin should fit the piston and connecting rod with a tight metal to metal fit. The pin can be pushed into the piston and rod with a slight pressure of the hand. Pin to rod clearance is .0003 to .0005 inches.
TROUBLESHOOTING ENGINE NOISES
A KNOCKING SOUND IN THE ENGINE IS MOST LIKELY CAUSED BY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING
1. PISTON SLAP: Makes a sharp metallic noise. Idle engine and short out each cylinder plug. The noise will disappear when plug with bad piston is shorted. Noise will also disappear at acceleration. This can be caused by worn or out of round cylinder, or broken piston ring. Correct problem by re-boring cylinder and/or replacing piston.
2. VALVE NOISE: Makes clicking or rattle noise. Caused by excessive wear on valve stem or lifter, out of adjustment, or stuck valve. Correct by adjusting valve clearance, replace worn valve or lifter, regrind cam, replace valve guide and /or valve. A stuck valve can sometimes be loosened by passing oil through the carburetor while engine is running.
3. ROD BEARING KNOCK: Makes sharp metallic noise similar to a piston slap. Detection is opposite of piston slap. Rod knock is not heard at idle. Knock becomes louder as engine speed is increased. Caused by excessive rod bearing clearance. Correct by adjusting rod bearing clearance to .0015 inches by removing shims. May require re-pouring rod bearing.
4. REAR MAIN BEARING KNOCK: Makes dull knocking or thud noise. Detected at speeds between 20 and 50 MPH. Knock will normally decrease or disappear while pulling or decelerating. Noise will be detected the loudest at normal driving speed, when not pulling or decelerating. Correct by adjusting bearing clearance to .001 to .0015 inches. If knock is excessive, crank should be checked for out of roundness. May need to re-pour all main bearings to correct.
5. TIMING GEAR KNOCK: usually the most difficult to diagnose. If gear is loose or badly worn it will knock in all ranges. Run engine slightly above idle speed. Slowly open and close throttle. Knock will continue to be present, but just as engine slows down knock will become a slight rattle. Remove timing pin and reinsert into timing hole on timing gear cover. Press timing pin tightly against timing gear and accelerate slightly above idle. Knock will significantly be reduced or disappear. Correct by replacing both timing gear and crank gear as a matched set. The two gears should have a backlash clearance of .003 to .004. If more than .009 inch backlash, an oversize (.005) timing gear should be installed.
6. WRIST PIN SLAP: This can not be detected by shorting out the cylinder plugs. Rapidly accelerate and decelerate the engine speed. The engine will pass through a certain speed range when the wrist pin will rattle at about the same pitch as a valve tappet noise. This can be corrected by installing a new wrist pin bushing in the rod or new wrist pin f badly worn. Wrist pin should fit the piston and connecting rod with a tight metal to metal fit. The pin can be pushed into the piston and rod with a slight pressure of the hand. Pin to rod clearance is .0003 to .0005 inches.
A KNOCKING SOUND IN THE ENGINE IS MOST LIKELY CAUSED BY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING
1. PISTON SLAP: Makes a sharp metallic noise. Idle engine and short out each cylinder plug. The noise will disappear when plug with bad piston is shorted. Noise will also disappear at acceleration. This can be caused by worn or out of round cylinder, or broken piston ring. Correct problem by re-boring cylinder and/or replacing piston.
2. VALVE NOISE: Makes clicking or rattle noise. Caused by excessive wear on valve stem or lifter, out of adjustment, or stuck valve. Correct by adjusting valve clearance, replace worn valve or lifter, regrind cam, replace valve guide and /or valve. A stuck valve can sometimes be loosened by passing oil through the carburetor while engine is running.
3. ROD BEARING KNOCK: Makes sharp metallic noise similar to a piston slap. Detection is opposite of piston slap. Rod knock is not heard at idle. Knock becomes louder as engine speed is increased. Caused by excessive rod bearing clearance. Correct by adjusting rod bearing clearance to .0015 inches by removing shims. May require re-pouring rod bearing.
4. REAR MAIN BEARING KNOCK: Makes dull knocking or thud noise. Detected at speeds between 20 and 50 MPH. Knock will normally decrease or disappear while pulling or decelerating. Noise will be detected the loudest at normal driving speed, when not pulling or decelerating. Correct by adjusting bearing clearance to .001 to .0015 inches. If knock is excessive, crank should be checked for out of roundness. May need to re-pour all main bearings to correct.
5. TIMING GEAR KNOCK: usually the most difficult to diagnose. If gear is loose or badly worn it will knock in all ranges. Run engine slightly above idle speed. Slowly open and close throttle. Knock will continue to be present, but just as engine slows down knock will become a slight rattle. Remove timing pin and reinsert into timing hole on timing gear cover. Press timing pin tightly against timing gear and accelerate slightly above idle. Knock will significantly be reduced or disappear. Correct by replacing both timing gear and crank gear as a matched set. The two gears should have a backlash clearance of .003 to .004. If more than .009 inch backlash, an oversize (.005) timing gear should be installed.
6. WRIST PIN SLAP: This can not be detected by shorting out the cylinder plugs. Rapidly accelerate and decelerate the engine speed. The engine will pass through a certain speed range when the wrist pin will rattle at about the same pitch as a valve tappet noise. This can be corrected by installing a new wrist pin bushing in the rod or new wrist pin f badly worn. Wrist pin should fit the piston and connecting rod with a tight metal to metal fit. The pin can be pushed into the piston and rod with a slight pressure of the hand. Pin to rod clearance is .0003 to .0005 inches.
A KNOCKING SOUND IN THE ENGINE IS MOST LIKELY CAUSED BY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING
1. PISTON SLAP: Makes a sharp metallic noise. Idle engine and short out each cylinder plug. The noise will disappear when plug with bad piston is shorted. Noise will also disappear at acceleration. This can be caused by worn or out of round cylinder, or broken piston ring. Correct problem by re-boring cylinder and/or replacing piston.
2. VALVE NOISE: Makes clicking or rattle noise. Caused by excessive wear on valve stem or lifter, out of adjustment, or stuck valve. Correct by adjusting valve clearance, replace worn valve or lifter, regrind cam, replace valve guide and /or valve. A stuck valve can sometimes be loosened by passing oil through the carburetor while engine is running.
3. ROD BEARING KNOCK: Makes sharp metallic noise similar to a piston slap. Detection is opposite of piston slap. Rod knock is not heard at idle. Knock becomes louder as engine speed is increased. Caused by excessive rod bearing clearance. Correct by adjusting rod bearing clearance to .0015 inches by removing shims. May require re-pouring rod bearing.
4. REAR MAIN BEARING KNOCK: Makes dull knocking or thud noise. Detected at speeds between 20 and 50 MPH. Knock will normally decrease or disappear while pulling or decelerating. Noise will be detected the loudest at normal driving speed, when not pulling or decelerating. Correct by adjusting bearing clearance to .001 to .0015 inches. If knock is excessive, crank should be checked for out of roundness. May need to re-pour all main bearings to correct.
5. TIMING GEAR KNOCK: usually the most difficult to diagnose. If gear is loose or badly worn it will knock in all ranges. Run engine slightly above idle speed. Slowly open and close throttle. Knock will continue to be present, but just as engine slows down knock will become a slight rattle. Remove timing pin and reinsert into timing hole on timing gear cover. Press timing pin tightly against timing gear and accelerate slightly above idle. Knock will significantly be reduced or disappear. Correct by replacing both timing gear and crank gear as a matched set. The two gears should have a backlash clearance of .003 to .004. If more than .009 inch backlash, an oversize (.005) timing gear should be installed.
6. WRIST PIN SLAP: This can not be detected by shorting out the cylinder plugs. Rapidly accelerate and decelerate the engine speed. The engine will pass through a certain speed range when the wrist pin will rattle at about the same pitch as a valve tappet noise. This can be corrected by installing a new wrist pin bushing in the rod or new wrist pin f badly worn. Wrist pin should fit the piston and connecting rod with a tight metal to metal fit. The pin can be pushed into the piston and rod with a slight pressure of the hand. Pin to rod clearance is .0003 to .0005 inches.
it is possibly piston slap,which is normal,some car company like GM also use slightly bigger gap between piston and cylinder on (3.1,3.4,3.8 liter engines) to help engine last longer,in return you get some piston slap when ENG cold,if it goes away after it warms up don't worry,it is normal
without being there to listen to it then it is going to be hard to say what the problem is......but since my 20 plus yrs working on toyota and lexus and depending on the mileage and whether or not you have ever replaced the timing belt......i would first start by checking the timing belt because when the motor is cold the rubber on the belt gets hard and if the belt is streched when first started it will start flapping and will slap against the timing cover and as it warms up the rubber on the belt softens up and the noise will reduce to a less noticeable sound......i have also the wrist pin bushings and the pins themselves that are connected to the pistons make this noise and also if the oil rings are sticking it will leave the pistons loose in the cylinder wall and as the motor warms up the noise will go away.....i hope that this info will help and if you need anymore info let me know with more detail.....also if you could let me and fixya know if i was able to help you in any way and a comment and a thumbs up would be greatly appreciated....thanks and good luck.......have a blessed day...........
Worn wrist pin or worn connecting rob bearing, regardless it a sign or worn internal engine bearings. Try adding some Lucas engine oil additive and see if the knocking goes away. If it does then it's your connecting rod bearing and if it's still there. Then it's going to be a worn wrist pin and will need to be replaced before you loose the engine from a broken piston.
If the sound does not go away then the engine has internal problems. Some times if someone over revs the engine it will cause knocks.If the oil is not changed regularly and the engine gets hot due to low water,racing engine then engines dont last long.
If its a deep solid knock its a crank shaft bearing.
If its a lighter knock then some times if you remove the right plug wire and the knock goes away (of course the engine will run rough due to lost cylinder) its that pistons wrist pin bearing.
At any rate your engine will need rebuilt or replaced.Or get a different car.
The knocking or ticking is going to determine if it is in the top end, lifters, push-rod or rocker arm issue or the bottom end that would include pistons or bearings. If it is a ticking noise, it will more than likely be a valve train issue. If a knocking noise, piston or crankshaft related problem.
Attached is a web site that you can listen to a piston slap which is a known issue for your 4.3. Listen to the noise and see if it sounds similar to your problem. A piston slap will generally sound as though it is coming from the central area of the engine. Listen to the recording and let me know. Regards,
Sounds like your oil pump inside the engine is not pumping oil fast enough when you start your vehicle its common problem for mitsubishi motors my car does the same thing.
I was asking if someone could just verify what the dealer told me, piston rattle, you did that, and much thanks. Yes I have tried to de-carbon the upper ring land, the noise goes away very quickly now.
Just reply to the piston pins not being able to make noise, that is not true, I have worked on engines with pin misfit issues, they were noisy.
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