Long crank but engine will not allways start..it is not flooded..some time i have to crank the engine 10-20min..and eventualy will start

no engine size stated, (so i toss coin, 4.0L) 5miilion strong.
the 1988 is the gawd awful French RENIX fuel injection.
i owned 2 of these pigs. (sure it runs) but sux.
why?, no CEL lamps , no flash codes, no OBD1 , no OBD ! anything.
only the very old and rare factory and dealer tools can scan this pig.
lets do this better?
in vivid details.
NO start 101: (order matters too)

1. compression at spec, on all 6 cylinders? (old engines do die)
2. spark at all 6 spark plugs good,? not just 1.
3. car is tuned up. spark plugs.cap rotor, wires, and filters?
4. the ign timing light on #1 wire, shows spark landing near TDC 0 degrees or under hood stated spec. (open hood look up )
5. i now check for flooding, is it? spark tips , TALK to me.?
6. yes, then check fuel pressure. next.
7. no, then are they dry, you said wet. ('gets fuel means what"?)
8. if flooding, i unplug the fuel pump relay and start car with test fuel if it runs for 3 seconds and stops, that is a PASS condition so but if not 1, to 7 above was skipped. lets say its flooding
9. if flooding did you try cranking per opr guide wide open throttle? this CUTS all fuel and clears all flooding on all gas engines. and for sure all EFI. gas engines.
10. my guess is its running now. right? if here?
11. if not, check fuel pressure per the fsm cranking, and the MAP sensor. out put voltage key on, and cranking. and post that.
12. good luck.

get the engine to run on test fuel first. this saves big time labor
down time, and wasted parts , guessed at)

doing a real tuneup , is not ever a waste.
a tuned up engine pays back in lower gas costs. big time.
fuel is expensive.

cranks but will not start.
test for spark at all cylinders.
test for spark still timed, #1 near TDC, #1 firing. at near 0 degrees.
if the spark is good and timing is good, try test fuel.
if spark is timed wrong, the cam belt or chain slipped.
i have no fiat data. but above is generic.
if spark is good (are spark plugs new and not color black (tips)>
ever do a tuneup this decade?
if an engine floods, crank with WOT, wide open throttle.
(pedal to dah metal)
this clears the flood by cutting all injections of fuel.
if engine is not flooded, try test fuel.

see scotty do his magic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=064Ilsz8Fzg&NR=1&feature=fvwp

what engine? 2.3 or 2.5L?
all cylinders flooding??? spark tips on ALL dripping in gas?
check spark at all spark plugs ( ALL not just ONE)
if spark is good.
this engine is chain cam, so it makes huge noise before death.
did it?, nah
ok, so connect any $9 scan tool, and scan it. (barrow /rent.?)

you crank it for 5 seconds, not less.
and as you crank the scan tool RPM shows 250 to300 rpm and fails to start, the RPM on the tool shows you that the crank sensor is working
now release the key and do not turn off
look for DTC errors. got P0340,355? or any other DTC
that decodes to bad CMP or CKP/
yes, BINGO, the scan tool told you why spark is dead, or way off
timing,

the PCM will report Cmp or CKP errors even 1 in 6 pulses.
the PCM runs monitors against these 2 full time. and will see it fail.
and report, it, let it tell why spark is bad.
say spark is good. and still floods.
1: engine compresssion over 150psi? W.O.T?
2: flooding , i pull the fuel pump relay and crank now.
starts and runs for 3 -5 seconds, yes, that is the flood clearing
so i then try test fuel, runs perfect now (no fuel pump) ???
runs for 3 second, each test fuel usage. well good motor, good spark.
what more do you want? sure to run
so you have either insane high fuel pressure. or injectors leaking
can and does happen.
the tests are all in the FSM under injector and pump testing.
i check fuel pressure first. as its a mandatory thing.....
to factory spec. for unsaid engine.
then i do a injector leak down and balance check.
ask if you get this far.....????

old post. but will answer.
the starter only cranks the engine, that is it's only job.
if it cranks robustly (at crank shaft pulley ,see it) then its ok.
250 RPM is typical cranking speed. RPM
no starts are complex.
for any engine Gas, to start you needs 4 things.

1. ALL FUSE TO EFI GOOD, TEST THEM. CEL glows key on?
2. full engine compression and crank vacuum 5" HG or more.?>??
3. Spark , try a fresh tune up with fresh spark plugs. all 6 sparking.?
4. Fueling , must be right. not flooding , not starving

if spark and engine are good, all engines(most) will start with test fuel.
This one simple test. proves the engine is ok, and spark is ok.
and the fuel system is dead.
these checks , will let is work the 4 systems. that might fail.
this is the classic basics path.
and works 99.% of the time.

exceptions, are clogged melted cat.
or stuck wide open EGR
or ISC stuck closed, (no starting air.) use 10% throttle to prove that.
or flooding, if flooding use super secret unflood mode (opr guide)
hold the throttle (right foot) pedal to the floor, this cuts fueling
and the flooded engine starts, for full time or runs and floods and stalls again.
This is called basics , in all ASE books in print.
RTM.

which engine?

cranks but will not start or remain running

tune up time, cold damp cause spark parts bad

oldest story in world. damp conducts, bad insulators do wet.

end result , bad spark.

flooding ? crank wide open throttle, (oper, guide, on start page.s...)_



check spark..,got spark to all cylinders

yes,

try test fuel, if not flooded,

starts then stalls?

not sure what you said but.
seems the battery is discharging,? 12.6v is fully charged,
own a voltmeter?
try a good loaned battery , does it start the car,?
i think you meant?
i can jumper cable start my car at any time. (off another running car)
but after running my car, the battery discharges and it will not crank at all. right?
this means ,the charging system on your car is bad.
if the starter cranks great, then the engine is flooded or is in great need of a tune up (sparkplugs etc)
if flooded try the super secret in the op guide, crank with throttle wide open , this magic trick cuts all fuel injection allowing the flooding
to purge away, and eventual starting.
my guess 2 is the car wont start, so you crank the battery flat
you jumper start it and it runs. (luck)
then day 2, same deal cranks ok but wont start.. ever tune up the engine?

To start any flooded engine is to allow full air into the engine while cranking. IE with a carby hold the acceleratot flat to the floor until the excess fuel is removed from the cylinders. (make sure that the choke is not stuck closed) Do not pump the pedal as this only makes the problem worse. With efi it should not flood but if you feel that it is flooding check for faulty injectors then again hold the pedal to the floor while cranking

I always start my '88 RX7 with a 2 start procedure. First start is short about 3 engine revs...second time it always starts.
If I don't do that it cranks & cranks.....try it.

It's flooded like you say.
If it's really flooded, you'll have to remove plugs and dry them off.
Install them.
Now when you crank engine, hold gas pedal to floor.
That will stop gas from spraying into engine.
You need to get the gas out of the engine for it to start.
Crank for 20-30 seconds with pedal to floor. Do this 3 times waiting 2-3 minutes inbetween cranks.
The starter needs to cool down.
Then after that start normally and see if it will start.
Remember if it will not start after 2 attempts, then the possiblity of it flooding is there and you'll have to clear out the gas by holding the pedal to the floor again.

Yes, if the key is on, and there is enough power to turn on the fuel pump, you can flood the car.